Low fares. Thank you in advance. Both have the same requirements in terms of minimum flight hours but each offers pilots a different lifestyle. These are popular cities to live in for flight crew and can sometimes be a challenge when competing with others for limited space-available seating. We spend $100K plus on flight training plus college for most of us. "We've really been able to be selective and get the cream of the crop," Coleman said. See jobs Follow View all 541. Pilots with higher rankings often have their pick of assignments over more recent hires, allowing them to have better control over their flying schedule, for example. Neeleman's track record speaks for itself with successes across three countries starting JetBlue Airways, Azul Brazilian Airlines, Morris Air, and WestJet, as well as a guiding TAP Air Portugal in a leadership role. This is a disappointment in many ways. Breeze spokesperson Gareth Edmonson-Jones says that competing with the airline might be more difficult for the major players. Commuting to reserve requires pilots to spend significant amounts of time away from home. West coast bases are frequently more senior for most pilot employers. This is not to fault or say any of my peers who's airlines have gone defunct (through no doing of their own) are underskilled pilots - they are well seasoned vets of an industry that was finally recovering from 9/11, the recession, age 65 rule and now COVID. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. Pilots are required to have a minimum set of hours but recruiters are also looking for soft skills like customer service. Whats my take? Visit AirlinePilot.life to learn more about commuting to work as an airline pilot. Four major career destroying events in 20 years. This is a very long thread with a lot of trolls, so forgive me if what I'm asking was answered 50 pages ago. I think a lot of Airlines would be happy to have the pilots at 55 instead of 75. "Breeze is creating unnecessary complexity for itself by having a more complex fleet," Harteveldt said. Pilots on reserve need to spend a significant amount of time in their domicile being available to their employer while waiting for a work assignment. Crew domiciles end up being staffed by more junior pilots due to cost of living, quality of life considerations, aircraft types operated out that base, where pilots typically fly to out of a base, and trip schedules. The first consideration is getting off reserve and getting regular lines of flying. It does sound like not much at the moment, but I think the idea behind it, that for a starting Airline and in the pandamic, to only offer 55h minium is understandable. 'Fly Breeze for peanuts' could be a marketing slogan aimed at pilots as well as passengers. Anyone have a list of proposed crew bases, no matter how tentative? Pilots that choose to commute will spend more time away from home than the pilots that live in base. New hire first officers flying . 28 years represented by ALPA, walked the picket line 29 days in 1985 and was ready to do it again several times during my career to entice management to come to the negotiating table with a better contract for pilots. Also, let's be honest: COVID is a new reality for pilots. I have no doubts in How often is the minimum guaranteed hours exceeded in a given month? I will never fly them, nor will I encourage anyone to work for them or fly them, until they pay real, market rates. The pay scale offered is not "borderline exploitative", it IS exploitative. But, we shall see. Could happen. See more about our ethics policies here. I'm not sure anything this post really supports the hypothesis that they're underpaid. Do you want your pilots to be the bottom of the barrel? They had over a hundred applicants. Regional airlines frequently recruit at the college level and then major airlines recruit from the regional airlines using these programs. So theyre going to get experienced pilots (somewhat), that are already typed, with 1K hrs of 121 time (most likely), not have to pay initial or differences training for them, then pay them sh. And the airline's Airbus A220-300 fleet will offer WiFi as the aircraft will be performing longer flights. 69 Airbus A220-300 EFIS Jet Airliners (40 Options). Our Pilots are overall Leaders who safely take care of our Team Members and Guests. Breeze knows this. There are cities scattered around that have low cost of living while also having good flight access to several major operational hubs. My regional airline was a casualty of covid and Breeze seems like a great fit for someone like myself. Considering that airlines pay for very expensive training twice a year, this tactic may prove more expensive in the long run. I could have worked for the also defunct Pilgrim Airlines. Do you really want to get on an airplane flown by people with financial problems and no better options? At this point, offset the difference by instructing or other commercial needs. The type rating requirement for the Embraer fleet favors pilots flying the Brazilian aircraft for the likes of JetBlue or one of the country's regional airlines like Republic Airways, SkyWest Airlines, and Mesa Airlines that fly the Embraer E170. Pilot Career Insight, Home Blog Pilot Career Insight Where to Live? Edmondson-Jones responded by saying that the difference in the Embraer aircraft sizes and where the aircraft's doors are placed determined the legroom. I have no idea if they will be paid CA or FO rate while flying the right seat though. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. Most major airlines are in negotiations at this time, and many are contentious. "I like the fact that we have a new budget airline that's entering the US that will inject fresh competition that will help compete with price and is hopefully going to provide very exciting jobs for a lot of people," Harteveldt said. If not enough apply because the pay is too low, then the company can decide if they want to raise their pay. But after all these furloughed guys get hired, who then? pilotcareercenter.com is a dedicated 24 hour webservice designed for the world's present and future aircrews. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI), Another Year On The Executive Platinum Hamster Wheel. Heres what our Team Members have to say: "Working with Breeze truly feels like being a part of a family. Even the much higher paying LCC/ULCCs lose a chunk of FOs and CAs to legacies and FDX/UPS. Ide take that bet, I think Neeleman can pull it off. Not if you wanted good work done. And before some smart guy points out to me that money is the reason for business, think back to business 101 golden ruletreat your employees the way youd like to be treated, and they will go above and beyond to make YOU more money. But lower than expected recruitment numbers have required the airline to open up regular positions with no requirements of being a student, airline spokesperson Gareth Edmondson-Jones confirmed to Insider. Sure, theres the free market, but this also seems borderline exploitative. Thanks. "The cities are all good cities, but the airports have no protection around them.". Neither Airline Transport Professionals, Inc. (ATP) nor any of its data or content providers (such as the airlines listed) shall be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. That minimum guarantee is just that, a minimum. Is Breeze Airways pilot pay unreasonable? Breeze has started hiring pilots, and its making pay at some regional airlines look lucrative by comparison (and keep in mind pilots often work at regional airlines to gain experience, and eventually get a job at one of the major carriers). They understand that our pursuit of Excellence is not a destination, but rather, a journey. Maybe its just SPS. "We're really looking for those folks that have good time on the E-Jet to get us started," Coleman said. Only Skyworst has no union in the regional game, and they continue to get guys to sign up by force feeding the kool-aid by the tankful. In-flight WiFi, for example, won't be offered on the aircraft. pilots from the majors who took retirement might jump at the chance to fly again. maximum takeoff weight), Must have 500 hours of PIC in large, Group II transport category aircraft (turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 lbs. 16. Would appreciate if anyone who actually works here can provide some insight. Unfortunately flying is something easy to be passionate about, and the industry takes advantage. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Our normal business hours are Monday-Friday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Pacific Time). Breeze Defends Plan to Use Students As Cabin Crew, Flight Attendants (businessinsider.com), Republic/Chautauqua New Deal With US Airways for E-170 and E-190, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. less than daily to leisure/small markets. Are there plans to start hiring for non-typed FOs for the E190s and eventually the A220s? This has been the business model of little outfits like this for 30 years. Breeze will initially fly 118-seat Embraer 195s, but eventually plans to operate a fleet consisting exclusively of Airbus A220s. JetBlue is the only other major US airline to fly Embraer 190/195s, proposed pilot pay is the free market at work. I will make $15-20 per hour for my hard work on average when you figure all the work we do for free. My regional got dumped by United and now Im at another regional at the bottom of a seniority list making way less money with bad work rules flying the same tail numbers I did before. Of course, I know plenty of poor souls that wont have a choice. Actual flight time? Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. "The core component of a brand promise is consistency," Harteveldt said. But its gross. Low fares. You seem to be an angry young man. Attn: Airline Pilot Central Airline and cargo operations are fluid and employers will frequently open and close outstations. less than daily to leisure/small markets. Once the industry recovers, I think breeze will close the gap. Eight hours plus. And in the interview say no thanks pay to low and walk out. It does sound like not much at the moment, but I think the idea behind it, that for a starting Airline and in the pandamic, to only offer 55h minium is understandable. It's a concept that saves Breeze on hotel expenses but also allows pilots to spend more time at home. Hire new, low hours FO with a salary that is 30% lower than the market on the promise that they will be promoted to captain in 1 year. The airline was founded by David Neeleman, who previously co-founded Morris Air, WestJet, JetBlue, and Azul Linhas Aereas. Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Open time extra pay can be substantial for pilots that make it a priority. One of the never-ending challenges pilots face in their career is deciding the domiciles they will work from. But pilots will also face the decision throughout their time at a specific employer as most have the option to change domiciles. So theres not much benefit to jumping ship and resetting your seniority at another airline. Rebook or cancel up to 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure without penalty. Breeze Airways Airlines and Aviation Salt Lake City, Utah 37,107 followers Welcome to Breeze Airways, a Seriously Nice, new airline. We are no longer sponsoring Visas / E-2 Visas. A new airline that bills itself as "seriously nice" first took to the skies in 2021. Im a retired AA captain. I'm curious how many days on-call per month they have. Captain will make 3 times this Im surprised David Neeleman would set such low rates for pay. But those seeking the typical pilot lifestyle of multi-day trips out on the road will find it on the Airbus fleet. Sign up for notifications from Insider! "Our program will be very heavily focused on helping them make that transition a little easier than it might be at a bigger airline that doesn't have enough resources to focus," Solomon said. . MSP - Minneapolis St Paul Intl. Greg Thomson It would be wise to not uproot families or even consider purchasing a home for a domicile unless that city is an operations hub. This article mentions and quotes minimum monthly guarantee, but fails to show the pay for picking up extra flying. Printing a boarding pass will also incur a $3 fee and a $9 fee will apply if a Breeze agent assists with a change or cancellation. Breeze will offer streaming in-flight entertainment including television shows and a map feature. Breeze Airways First Officer Minimum Qualifications Must be at least 23 years old at the time of hire Must have 1,500+ hours total time (not including simulator and/or Flight Engineer time) Must have a minimum of: o 750 hours of fixed wing time o 500 hours cross country o 250 hours PIC o 100 hours night o 75 hours instrument Not if you wanted good work done. "From the outset, Breeze is going to be confusing customers which, by the way, is not a nice thing to do.". We will rely on you to act as the face of the Company by embracing Breezes Five Core Values Safety, Kindness, Integrity, Ingenuity, and Excellence. At 55 min, it seems like a part time job. "The biggest concern that I had about the launch announcement is the very short window of time the airline has chosen to give itself between announcing that his flights are open for sale and its first flight," Harteveldt said. Analyst Henry Harteveldt is concerned about the airline's route network, high fee structure, and tech-focused model. Today the average annual income for A320 FO's are at incredible $20k. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Just as the cure for high prices, are high prices, the cure for low wages, are low wages. One Cough At A Time: Sick Travelers Galore! My only other option right now is to start all over at another regional where the pay, seniority, and quality of life will be much lower. If you are considering a domicile that isnt a hub that base should be viewed as temporary. Read more to learn the factors you need to consider . It's that, or these guys and their families starve. 909 N. Sepulveda Blvd, 11th Floor Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. My airline had a trip that left LGA early in the morning to CMH. And to survive afterwards, once pilots leave in droves, theyll have to drop their requirements to the lowest legal, AND pay a more than competitive wagetheyre shooting themselves in the left main. Or perhaps thats actually the goal that Breeze wants a revolving door of pilots so that it can keep pilots towards the bottom of the pay scale. Ben -- one thing that seems to be missing from your calculus and the comments: equity. The first flights of Breeze Airways are just around the corner and the David Neeleman-founded startup is looking to bring on more pilots in advance of its long-awaited debut. Upon arrival, you sat for 5 hours, then returned to LGA. If Neeleman pulls this off again, I will be impressed. Candidates give an average difficulty score of 2.6 out of 5 (where 5 is the highest level of difficulty) for their job interview at Breeze Airways. Heres SkyWests Embraer 170 pilot pay scale (this is a significantly smaller plane): Again, the catch with regional airlines is that pilots typically work here for a few years before applying for a job with one of the major airlines. Pilots hired to Breeze now will be assigned to the Embraer fleet while the application window for the Airbus fleet will open early this summer. The pay scale offered is not "borderline exploitative", it IS exploitative. 77% of job seekers rate their interview experience at Breeze Airways as positive. This interactive map shows airline bases and hubs, and pilot domiciles across the US. Stay connected with the latest travel, aviation, and credit card news. Once a pilot is assigned to one aircraft, though, they're locked in for at least three years before a switch can be made. That said, they will be steadily growing for quite some time, so I dont see that as an issue, at least not for a while. If you want to put yourself into a position to for extra pay then living in base is a more realistic choice. Pilots are incredibly overpaid as it is. The hiring program would see the airline take on solely online college students for its cabin crew roles. as well as other partner offers and accept our. I will make $15-20 per hour for my hard work on average when you figure all the work we do for free. Breeze Airways is Neeleman's fifth airline start-up, after JetBlue, Brazil's Azul, Canada's WestJet, and Utah-based Morris Air, which was later purchased by Southwest Airlines. The most important sentence in this article is this the only reason to become a pilot at Breeze is if you have no other options. Given that long haul truckers can make that and more, with additional signing bonuses, you must really love to fly and be desperate. "A nice airline doesn't push people to technology.". Breeze Airways provides nonstop service between underserved routes across the U.S. at affordable fares. It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action. Aviation professionals pay has changed dramatically, starting in the late 80s. Larger bases typically provide a wider range of flying. And the pay doesn't seem half bad considering the industry as a whole and how everyone is making less anyway. Not only do we have a fabulous team but our guests are seriously nice!". Domicile - in airline terms this is the permanent location of flight crew. The flight benefits and jumpseat agreements pilots have as part of their job affords the option of commuting. Visit AirlinePilot.life to learn more about commuting to work as an airline pilot. Failing that, they were determined to not pay one dime more than their competition. "There are a growing number of consumers who expect WiFi to be available everywhere they go, including airplanes," Harteveldt said. I know the pay is low, it's a start-up, etc, etc, etc, I get it. Dont think breeze will ever get to a point where they have only a fixed cadre of left seat lifers. Another reason Harteveldt isn't sold on Breeze's seriously nice attitude is because of the airline's high fee structure. Major - [Breeze] Airways - Originally Posted by 501D22G Those are the FA domiciles. Domicile Choices At Legacy, Major, and Regional Airlines, east coast domiciles with high costs of living to be the most junior crew domiciles, Availablity of flights between home and domicile, Likelihood of being on reserve for a prolonged period of time, Whether you want to have the option for extra flying and premium pay. The comments about this airline attracting the bottom of the barrel are unfair considering the circumstances. A total of $6,000 is given in tuition reimbursement on top of a monthly $1,200 voucher, among other perks. . Not Germany, France, the UK, Japan, no one. The article also fails to factor in per diem amounts and the tax advantage that goes with that. 28 years represented by ALPA, walked the picket line 29 days in 1985 and was ready to do it again several times during my career to entice management to come to the negotiating table with a better contract for pilots. This might work in the short-term, but the moment that demand recovers, the airline is going to have to significantly increase pay, or it will risk having pilots leave in droves. Pilots won't go straight from the classroom to the cockpit, however, as they'll need to build up their flight hours to Breeze's requirements, which is often done through flight instructing. And those wanting to experience the life of an international jet-setting pilot will get to do so at Breeze, just not straight away. "Breeze has basically outlined a list of ways where customers are going to think they're not a very nice airline," Harteveldt said. Book your flights now! But, does anyone on here actually work at Breeze? It will cost $50 to pay to check a bag at the airport instead of doing so online, for example, and a separate $50 fee if a passenger has an agent add the baggage allowance through messaging services. "There's no commuting if you don't want to commute, there are no more crash pads if you don't want to crash pad," Coleman explained. Both are near identical, with the E195 slightly longer than the E190, but will feature different onboard products. [5] The race to the bottom continues. This hasnt been without controversy, though. Student pilots are interviewed by the airline during their training and then put on a path to employment at that airline so that they'll have a job straight out of school. What follows then is a vast amount of turnover which, in itself, compromises safety. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Our business address is: Some will likely say that Breeze Airways proposed pilot pay is the free market at work, with so many pilots furloughed or laid off. We live in a free market economy. By accessing the ATPFlightSchool.com site, a user agrees not to redistribute the information found therein. Harteveldt noted that WiFi can be used for fraud protection if the airline plans to offer in-flight purchasing, and it can be used for "smart aircraft" applications where the airline can monitor the performance of an aircraft's systems in real-time. Pilot Breeze Airways Pilots are responsible for ensuring safe and timely flight operations in accordance with all Company policies and Federal Aviation Regulations. Second, the amount of flights they'll even have to offer in their first year or two is relatively small but not surprising for the type of flying they're doingie. In the meantime, if you don't like the pay, go see if another airline is hiring. Not discussed here is the difference between flight hours and duty day. Breeze intended for all of its flight attendants to be degree-seeking students. Employers rarely lock pilots into specific domiciles for periods of time. All ultra-low-cost airlines in the US stick to one fleet type, whether it be all-Boeing 737 family or all-Airbus A320 family aircraft. Our fares are low! "Nonstop routes and low fares are way nicer than flying through hubs at high fares," Edmondson-Jones said. Rival Avelo's fee structure is more lenient, says Harteveldt, although the two don't directly compete yet. Just one profile allows pilots to apply to multiple employers and to be contacted by employers searching for qualified candidates. Our point-to-point network means no connections for an easier, quicker and nicer journey. An initial slate of 39 routes across 16 cities will launch between May 27 and July 29, boasting fares are as low as $39. Breeze seeks to create demand with low-cost leisure routes to underserved cities across the US. I'm assuming Breeze knows there's going to be a number of unemployed pilots and $77K+ a year is better than unemployment benefits. The benefit of getting on right now at Breeze is seniority in the future. "And if Breeze is hoping to attract millennial and Gen Z consumers as its customers, they're going to be disappointed that there's no WiFi onboard on the plane". This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. A New Era Of Young Mainline Airline Pilots, Here Are My Favorite Airline Ad Campaigns, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners, Pilots generally get paid for flight hours; the hourly rate might seems high, but pilots arent getting paid for anywhere close to 40 hours per week of work, Pay varies depending on whether youre captain or first officer, and each year your pay typically increases, up to a certain cap, Other than hourly pay, one other important metric is minimum guaranteed monthly hours, since guaranteed hours multiplied by hourly pay guarantees your minimum monthly pay, First officers will be paid $55 per hour in year one, and $94 per hour in year six, Captains will be paid $117 per hour in year one, and $143 per hour in year six, Pilots are only guaranteed pay for 55 hours per month of flying (this is really the worst part, since pilots at most airlines are guaranteed 75+ hours per month), A first officer is looking at earning $36,300 in the first year, and $62,040 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $77,220 in the first year, and $94,380 in the sixth year, In absolute terms these are above average salaries in the US, However, pilot training is expensive, and an Embraer 195 has nearly 120 seats, so its bigger than your typical regional jet; also, the airline will eventually fly A220s, and presumably pay wont be much better, Breeze is expecting more from pilots than regional airlines, as applicants already need a type rating for Embraer aircraft, and also need more experience, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to JetBlue pilot pay, since, Lets compare Breeze pilot pay to SkyWest pilot pay; pilots often go to regional airlines to gain experience early on, and this typically represents the lowest pay youll find in the airline industry, First officers are paid $89 per hour in year one, and $130 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $192 per hour in year one, and $203 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 75 hours per month of flying, A JetBlue Embraer 190 first officer is looking at earning $80,100 in the first year, and $117,000 in the sixth year, A JetBlue Embraer 190 captain is looking at earning $172,800 in the first year, and $182,700 in the sixth year, First officers are paid $45 per hour in year one, and $59 per hour in year six, Captains are paid $79 per hour in year one, and $91 per hour in year six, Pilots are guaranteed pay for 76 hours per month of flying, A first officer is looking at earning $41,040 in the first year, and $53,808 in the sixth year, A captain is looking at earning $72,048 in the first year, and $82,992 in the sixth year, The most unreasonable part of Breezes pay arrangement is the minimum guaranteed hours, rather than the hourly rate as such; everyone needs a certain amount of money to cover their bills, and the minimum monthly amount sure is low, Breeze is essentially trying to pay like a regional airline, while requiring more experience to get hired (pilots need to be type rated on Embraer aircraft, and need 1,000 hours of fixed-wing turbine time), Between the flight attendant employment arrangement and the pilot pay, it doesnt seems like Breeze is trying to build a culture that encourages employees to stay with the company long term, It takes years (and a lot of money) to get to the point where you can get this job, youre flying a plane that retails for tens of millions of dollars, and you have the lives of nearly 120 people at a time in your hands, and youre potentially being paid ~16% above a $15 minimum wage (which we have in many cities nowadays). 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